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"The Orlando Sentinel reported Florida now has a whopping 5,294 posted vacancies — more than triple the number the state had five years ago, according to Florida Education Association. (Plus another 4,600 openings for teachers’ aides and other school employees.)\nAnd as for veterans filling the gap, well, the Military Times reported last month that the governor’s plan to “grow Florida’s teaching workforce” had added a total of seven teachers.\nIn response to a inquiry from the Sentinel, the state said last week that number was up to 11. But even if five times that many vets have begun teaching, the state’s shortage of more than 5,200 teachers would still be more than 5,200.\nThis shouldn’t be a surprise. GOP lawmakers have spent the better part of the last year accusing Florida teachers of being lazy, incompetent indoctrinators — sometimes even pedophiles.\nAnd lawmakers have coupled those insults with some of the lowest pay in America. While the governor admirably boosted pay for starting teachers, veteran teachers have been largely left behind, so that average teacher pay in Florida still ranks 49th, according to the National Education Association.",
">\n\nWhy would anyone want to be an under-paid and under-appreciated political punching bag for Q-addled right-wing nutjobs?",
">\n\nWhy would they solve it? It's to the leadership's benefit to keep the populace as stupid as possible.",
">\n\nAgreed - this is by design.",
">\n\nBecause in their strategy, a stupid population is a malleable population. This is why they run on culture war issues that are completely manufactured and pass laws that have no benefit to them in anyway.",
">\n\nFuck Florida",
">\n\nyep.",
">\n\nThe schools will then have to bring in inexperienced and undertrained TFA teachers, who will probably give it their all, but most will leave teaching within a year or two, especially considering how overworked and undersupported they'll be.",
">\n\nFlorida Republicans, like all of the irredeemable Red States, don't want to educate past the 6th grade, and really just want education to happen in Sunday Schools. They have convinced their idiot voters that education is bad and leads to Socialism. Being idiots, their voters eat it up.",
">\n\nThis is great for those of us in states with good public education. Less competition for the most sought after top university spots, internships, and jobs.",
">\n\nPhase 1 of the “destroy public education in favor of privatized voucher funded Christofascist indoctrination centers” has concluded.",
">\n\nIf Florida sank into the sea like Atlantis, would anyone even notice?",
">\n\nCherry picking Florida is nice but I can tell you this is a problem nationwide and apparently nobody is acknowledging it anywhere. I guess we'll just let AI teach. Hell probably better since they won't push political bias.",
">\n\nEducators have been telling people there’s a teacher shortage for years. This has not been a secret. Teachers are blamed for every single issue in a child’s life. Plus, pay is generally bad and no politicians seem to care because teacher pay has always been a joke. I’ve been in public education for nearly 20 years and I love my job. I feel like I make a difference but I worry about the future of the profession. When I came out of college, there was a surplus of teachers. I moved out of state because I couldn’t find a job in my home state in the Midwest. I moved back to my state a few years back and even the most affluent districts are struggling to find staff for positions that normally had hundreds of applicants. Who would enter this profession to be attacked by politicians?",
">\n\nFlorida leaders: It's only a problem if you're not us.",
">\n\nSoon the magas will have the electorate they want"
] |
/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards
|
[] |
>
I have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.
I think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards"
] |
>
!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of "you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become" not "you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there"
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born."
] |
>
Big difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\""
] |
>
Don't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes."
] |
>
Yeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?"
] |
>
Disagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.
Assuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc.
For example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time.
The same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.
Even excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”"
] |
>
!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country."
] |
>
Cool, my first delta! Thank you 😄
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you"
] |
>
Congrats, great response.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄"
] |
>
How are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response."
] |
>
I feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born."
] |
>
Okay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid.
To me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in."
] |
>
You’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).
Try your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids."
] |
>
Why should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources.
And I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think."
] |
>
Yeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).
And the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.
Eg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.
Wealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo."
] |
>
Idk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important"
] |
>
I think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth."
] |
>
This is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important.
Even if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care.
Your birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights."
] |
>
1.Where you're born
2.Your sex
3..Your race
4.Your religion/lack there of
5.Class
Why that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance."
] |
>
This is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these."
] |
>
Sex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes
Time
Place raised
Class
Sex
Race
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list."
] |
>
Maybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.
I highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace"
] |
>
My husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.
Most people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct."
] |
>
Agreed on "most people", that doesn't change my point.
Your answers to those "Why" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood"
] |
>
For example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.
Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong."
] |
>
I would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in "the least developed country in the world" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling."
] |
>
I can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways."
] |
>
I agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.
I agree with you if by "important" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that "important" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare"
] |
>
You may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become.
If you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country."
] |
>
Social group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.
Yes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family."
] |
>
they all kind of act the same
Nope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing.
You are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states.
If the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.
Even then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan"
] |
>
Why is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time."
] |
>
For older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc.
Anyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of "our library doesn't have books on this" or "Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal" or something of that matter.
So I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?"
] |
>
I can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person."
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I suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species.
Further, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race"
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Location is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given."
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I have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth.
Even excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor."
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I think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult."
] |
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Wao
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed."
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Firstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.
Secondly, it's very unclear what you mean by "important". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by "important" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships!
Thirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao"
] |
>
I was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner."
] |
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Which family you are born into is the most important thing.
You could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?"
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I was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one."
] |
>
How do you factor in kids whose parents are military?
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class."
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What if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said "where you grew up" but where you were born is not relevant.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?"
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Military kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.
I could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.
A long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.
Before she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant."
] |
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Yes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as "Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!"
Everyone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a "you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it" not in a malicious way but in a "wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid "what do they want?" but others take it as "wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!"
Except when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”"
] |
>
I getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.
You had me laughing at your texas comment.
Recently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk"
] |
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Haha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a "foreigner " if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes"
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>
I like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.
I have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields"
] |
>
Absolutely!
I'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world.
In USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances.
I don't even think we have meth in Denmark
...
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there."
] |
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Haha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n..."
] |
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I think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in.
If you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you.
eg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child.
eg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in.
I can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all.
What you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha"
] |
>
I mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to"
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I don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.
I will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)
I will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important"
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?"
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You say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted."
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The family that you're born in.
This includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.
The place that you're born in.
This decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.
How you're raised.
There are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?"
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I think Class after location, if not even before.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge."
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I think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before."
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I would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs)."
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!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future."
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Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).
^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago."
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Class (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards"
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What about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life."
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I feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?"
] |
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When you're born is probably the most important.
In both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison"
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yes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer."
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Why wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever."
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Aside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.
I was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.
For better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?"
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Didn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that."
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I was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.
So it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider..."
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I don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up."
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You guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that."
] |
>
I’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?"
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I would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter."
] |
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You are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family."
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The first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!"
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I literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life.
My personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person."
] |
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Your family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography."
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Yeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around."
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okay so astrology yes? thank you lmao
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation"
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Hahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao"
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I don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao"
] |
>
your list can be changed into a single word, and that is "parents." as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself."
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i'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time"
] |
>
Would you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?
Wealth matters far more than location
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly"
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Who you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location"
] |
>
You may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…"
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>
Who you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.
If your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ..."
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Parents are most important to one’s upbringing.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers"
] |
>
I work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.
None of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education.
Now, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else.
However, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing."
] |
>
Two people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful."
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Why is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them."
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Like it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life."
] |
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I have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there.
Rather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen"
] |
>
Nope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short"
] |
>
I have a personal quote regarding this,
Everyone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is."
] |
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