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Where you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters."
] |
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Where you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things"
] |
>
How about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is."
] |
>
I would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world."
] |
>
I would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.
Saying this as someone with a disability.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also."
] |
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It's not where you were born, its where you were raised.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability."
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I think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised."
] |
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I was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation)."
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When* you're born is bigger.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol"
] |
>
Nah it’s the place you grew up in…
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger."
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Very accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…"
] |
>
As an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed.
Lots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life.
A gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self.
A person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown.
Iv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.
|
[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables."
] |
>
Welcome to your first dip into determinism..
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things."
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I was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism.."
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Being born.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc"
] |
>
Where you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.
A different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no "you" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.
Where you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States.
They are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born."
] |
>
2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents.
Then you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to."
] |
>
Where you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.
You state "sex", "race", "religion", and "class" as the next 4 most important things.
All of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.
Here are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:
1) "Your family" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.
2) "Your physical health". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.
3) "Your intelligence / mental health" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.
4) "When you were born." If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.
5) "Access to education." Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.
What is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted."
] |
>
My immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas.
I was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to "one unusual fact about me..." corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years.
I'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many.
Really I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things."
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Not really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up.
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am."
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I was born in Taiwan and my parents immigrated to Canada before I was 1. Being born in Taiwan meant nothing.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.",
">\n\nNot really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up."
] |
>
I would change it to "where you're raised."
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.",
">\n\nNot really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up.",
">\n\nI was born in Taiwan and my parents immigrated to Canada before I was 1. Being born in Taiwan meant nothing."
] |
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I disagree. You're ordering is fine, other than I put class at the top. Nothing matters to anyone anywhere more than class.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.",
">\n\nNot really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up.",
">\n\nI was born in Taiwan and my parents immigrated to Canada before I was 1. Being born in Taiwan meant nothing.",
">\n\nI would change it to \"where you're raised.\""
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No shit.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.",
">\n\nNot really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up.",
">\n\nI was born in Taiwan and my parents immigrated to Canada before I was 1. Being born in Taiwan meant nothing.",
">\n\nI would change it to \"where you're raised.\"",
">\n\nI disagree. You're ordering is fine, other than I put class at the top. Nothing matters to anyone anywhere more than class."
] |
>
Depending on how you determine personhood, it's easily argued that if you're born, is more important, as opposed to being stillborn, dying while your mother is in labor, aborted, etc.
It doesn't matter where you're born if you fail to be born. For even hard line pro-choice people, you'd be hard-pressed to find some that think an 8.5 month old fetus isn't a person yet, so let's just assume being a person happens sometime between conception and birth. Therefore, it's simply more important to make it past your birth alive, than if you're born in a remote village with no infrastructure vs into a rich uptown Manhattan family.
As much of a stretch or dream it is to say that the person born in the village can still achieve greatness, become powerful, etc., it is still technically possible, but further, living a fulfilling life is still perfectly achievable regardless. If you're dead before you can even interact with your environment, that's simply not the case.
Edit: Getting a little lost in the sauce with the argument, but theoretically whatever the earliest thing is in the timeline of your personhood is that is big enough to end it, would imo be the most important thing, and that seems to be whether you make it past your birth or not. Variables like a mother who took care of herself while pregnant, etc., just affect the blanket consideration of if you're born or not.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.",
">\n\nNot really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up.",
">\n\nI was born in Taiwan and my parents immigrated to Canada before I was 1. Being born in Taiwan meant nothing.",
">\n\nI would change it to \"where you're raised.\"",
">\n\nI disagree. You're ordering is fine, other than I put class at the top. Nothing matters to anyone anywhere more than class.",
">\n\nNo shit."
] |
>
Agree, except the woman who gives birth to you (or aborts, or dies in labor, etc) is more important because she actually determines IF you are born.
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[
"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.",
">\n\nNot really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up.",
">\n\nI was born in Taiwan and my parents immigrated to Canada before I was 1. Being born in Taiwan meant nothing.",
">\n\nI would change it to \"where you're raised.\"",
">\n\nI disagree. You're ordering is fine, other than I put class at the top. Nothing matters to anyone anywhere more than class.",
">\n\nNo shit.",
">\n\nDepending on how you determine personhood, it's easily argued that if you're born, is more important, as opposed to being stillborn, dying while your mother is in labor, aborted, etc.\nIt doesn't matter where you're born if you fail to be born. For even hard line pro-choice people, you'd be hard-pressed to find some that think an 8.5 month old fetus isn't a person yet, so let's just assume being a person happens sometime between conception and birth. Therefore, it's simply more important to make it past your birth alive, than if you're born in a remote village with no infrastructure vs into a rich uptown Manhattan family.\nAs much of a stretch or dream it is to say that the person born in the village can still achieve greatness, become powerful, etc., it is still technically possible, but further, living a fulfilling life is still perfectly achievable regardless. If you're dead before you can even interact with your environment, that's simply not the case.\nEdit: Getting a little lost in the sauce with the argument, but theoretically whatever the earliest thing is in the timeline of your personhood is that is big enough to end it, would imo be the most important thing, and that seems to be whether you make it past your birth or not. Variables like a mother who took care of herself while pregnant, etc., just affect the blanket consideration of if you're born or not."
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"/u/Buffyfanatic1 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.\nAll comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.\nPlease note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nI have no memory of the city I was born in, and no connection to it. It was a place my parents lived for less than two years. After we moved away, we never returned and never had contact with anyone there. I can't think of a single way that place has had any importance on my life.\nI think your view is about where you grew up, or where your family is from. Not necessarily where you were born.",
">\n\n!delta I can definitely understand that. I was coming from an angle of \"you're born and raised there so this is who 80% you will become\" not \"you're born there and no matter where you're raised you'll always be from there\"",
">\n\nBig difference between where you’re born and where you’re raised as far as this argument goes.",
">\n\nDon't you contradict that right in your post with the example of your husband? He was born one place, then raised another, and the place he was raised had a much bigger impact on him. What makes the literal place of your birth more important than where you grow up?",
">\n\nYeah OP needs to change this to “where you were raised”",
">\n\nDisagree - when you’re born is the most important thing to happen to you above all else.\nAssuming reincarnation is incorrect, we only have one life on earth before we die. The era you’re born into will determine literally everything about you, your probable life trajectory, etc. \nFor example, I was born in the US. If I was born exactly 40 years earlier with the same date of birth, I would have been drafted into the Vietnam War. Being born into the objectively richest country in the world in the mid-20th century would have been a wildly different experience for me compared to being born in the richest country in the world in the late 20th century all because I was born at the right time. \nThe same thing applies across the world across every era. If you were born and died during the Black Plague, your life was short, objectively awful, etc. If you were born in Ireland since the Celtic Tiger compared to most of its history, your chances for a comfortable and high-quality life are never higher than at any point in Irish history. If you were born in Palestine in 1923 vs 2023, your experience would be VERY different and likely for the worse.\nEven excluding geography, if you were born in a world where insulin, the smallpox vaccine, etc. weren’t a thing, you probably died young all because of the era in which you were born. Through no fault of your own, you died in a wealthy or poor country.",
">\n\n!delta that is very true. The time period you're born into determines everything even before where you're born or your sex or your race. If you're born in a shithole time period in a shithole country you're gonna have a bad time irrelevant of everything else. I 100% agree with that. Thank you",
">\n\nCool, my first delta! Thank you 😄",
">\n\nCongrats, great response.",
">\n\nHow are you determining importance? I'm not going to change your mind in regards to it being important. I'd simply argue that family wealth is more important than where you were born.",
">\n\nI feel like where you were born is more important than family wealth. As people who are rich in other countries spend their money in different ways. Yes, all rich people are rich, but if you take a rich guy from Japan and compare how he spends his money to let's say a rich person in a small African country it would be vastly different. Why? That's where they were born so their money values come with the culture that they were raised in.",
">\n\nOkay, so lets take an example here. We have an ultra-wealthy kid born in Nebraska as our base example, random state chosen. Now, compare them to a poor kid born in Nebraska, and an ultra-wealthy kid born in California. Which of these other kids would the Wealthy Nebraskan be more similar to? Both of the Wealthy kids will go to private school, live in a mansion or expensive suburbs, have a ton of toys and resources, fly on private jets, have nannies and butlers and all the other privileges that come with tons of money. Meanwhile, both kids in Nebraska will absorb something of that culture for sure, but the ways they interact with that place will be totally different. The poor kid will likely live in a city, go to poor public schools, meet totally different people and interact with totally different social circles/infrastructure, have to make their own way and just generally have a completely different life to the wealthy kid. \nTo me it is pretty clear that both wealthy kids will have a much more similar life than the two Nebraska kids.",
">\n\nYou’ve chosen the most extreme possible differential from the mean for wealth (kids-private-jet-level wealthy, separated from the mean by as many standard deviations as there could possibly be), and almost no differential at all in the location axis (two states from the same already-unbelievably-wealthy-by-historical-standards country).\nTry your comparison again using a top-25%-er from California with a top-25%-er from Sudan and you’ll understand the parent poster’s point better, I think.",
">\n\nWhy should we be doing average wealth by location instead of absolute wealth? I'm not saying that your position in your home country's average wealth ladder is more important, but your absolute wealth and resources. \nAnd I am well aware that both of these metrics interact and are important, but that's not an argument for either imo.",
">\n\nYeah but the point is, where you are born determines the likelihood that you will be wealthy (by global standards).\nAnd the wealth of a 'poor' person in one country can still achieve vastly different standards of living vs a 'rich' person in another.\nEg - if you are born in Mogadishu, you are more likely to be poor than if you are born in California. Also, you could be the richest person in Mogadishu and still have access to a lower standard of living (poorer education, higher crime) than a poor person in California.\nWealth is relative, place of birth determines the relatively. Hence, place of birth is more important",
">\n\nIdk man, I don't think I buy that. Wealth is of course relative, but I just don't think that the majority of people who happen to be born in one place follow a similar life path or way of thinking. At least based on my experiences, people who grew up around me have had tons of completely different experiences, and a lot of that has been determined by wealth.",
">\n\nI think who are your parents is the most important. In most countries being born there doesn't give you the right to live in this country, only if your parents have such rights.",
">\n\nThis is the only correct answer - who gives birth to you is most important. \nEven if a mother dies in childbirth, her being your mother will dictate where you’re born and if you live with your father, get placed into a relatives home or go into foster care. \nYour birth mothers genes & decisions determine your race, class, gender, orientation, health, location of birth, where you grow up… all of which influence anything of importance.",
">\n\n\n1.Where you're born \n2.Your sex \n3..Your race \n4.Your religion/lack there of \n5.Class\n\nWhy that order? It seems to me that class is by far the most important factor out of any of these.",
">\n\nThis is why ranking these things is bad form. I was thinking race should certainly come before sex. And religion shouldn't even be on the list.",
">\n\nSex is definitely above race it changes your whole biology. There’s even an argument for it being first. From reading comments here and adjusting I think it goes\n\nTime\nPlace raised\nClass\nSex\nRace",
">\n\nMaybe considered pedantic for this subreddit, but I believe I'd be an exception to your view. My family moved across the country before my first birthday and they only stayed in the region I was born for around a year.\nI highly doubt I would've picked up much influence, even if this view is correct.",
">\n\nMy husband is the same way as you. He moved around a lot growing up so has 0 ties to any particular state. He gets VERY upset when people critique America as a whole because he latched onto the American ideology because he never had bonds with any state. For example, I'm originally from Oklahoma. If you asked an Oklahoman where they're from they will ALWAYS say Oklahoma before America. Why? We care more about Oklahoma than the US as a whole. Same with Texas and other states. Which is why America has so many problems as each states and its people want different things. Why? They were born there.\nMost people aren't like my husband though and most people have a lot of ties to where they're born. Most people don't spend their childhood traveling around from state to state or country to country. Most people who are born places stay in that place at least until adulthood",
">\n\nAgreed on \"most people\", that doesn't change my point.\nYour answers to those \"Why\" questions you asked yourself are just flat out made-up and wrong.",
">\n\n\nFor example, I met my husband overseas and he told me he was from the state I was from. It made me feel weird because by looking at him I could tell he was telling the truth but the vibe gave off he was raised somewhere else and I was right. He was born in my state then moved away forever at a very young age.\n\nSorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding you... is this not exactly opposite to what you believe? Your husband was literally born in the same state but is very different - enough to give you a weird feeling.",
">\n\nI would argue that being born healthy is the most, or one of the most important things to happen to you, and is certainly above being born in certain locations. You can be born to an infinitely rich family in any developed country, but what use does that have if you are completely disabled physically, mentally, or both. Being born healthy in \"the least developed country in the world\" still gives you some chance of rising above where you are born and raised. Tiny chance, but it is still an opportunity. No such opportunity if you aren't healthy in the most important ways.",
">\n\nI can see what you're saying but being born unhealthy in the first world is completely different than being born unhealthy in a third world country. In the west and other countries who have established health care systems (not saying all 3rd world countries don't I'm just talking about countries with interconnected systems and not ones who are a bunch of tribes who happen to share a country if that makes sense) you being born disabled in a tribe who kills off their sick will have a completely different life than someone born in Western Europe with healthcare",
">\n\nI agree with you by the most part, but I would still argue that depending on the severity of your disability, you either die in an undeveloped country, or maybe (not even 100%) exist (not even live) in a developed country under constant care of medical staff.\nI agree with you if by \"important\" in your original statement you mean your odds of survival. I would argue that \"important\" in this case means living, not existing (and in a way - enjoying the said life) and opportunity for making your life better. Being born brain dead (even in a country with the most sophisticated healthcare system), or severely mentally handicapped, limits your opportunities in a more impactful way, than being born healthy in an undeveloped country.",
">\n\nYou may be more predisposed to certain behaviors or stereotypes depending on where you were born, but you seem to leave out any form of parental influence or social group influence as determining factors of who you will become. \nIf you are born in NYC but have a very conservative family there is a good chance you'll be more conservative than someone born in the deep south but have a very liberal family.",
">\n\nSocial group influence is the culture around them and thus where they were born. Yes, people are individuals and have different thoughts and feelings. But if you look at people and study people from a specific culture or country, they all kind of act the same and have the same cultural values regardless of political leanings. Everything is a spectrum but there's a documentary that scientifically explains how 80% of your life can be determined by where on this earth you are born.\nYes people are individuals but in cultures they're groups and individuals conform to groups all the time it's literally in our DNA. That's why you'd never see a group of men from Africa having the same morals and values and wants and needs as a group of men from Japan",
">\n\n\nthey all kind of act the same\n\nNope. A majority do... not all. That's the thing. \nYou are assuming that all people from each region act the same when they don't. US cities that people consider very liberal might only be 70% - 30% .. and vice versa for conservative cities/states. \nIf the people in your own household and social group are the opposite of the majority of where you live, you're still more likely to end up sharing ideology with the people you surround yourself with.\nEven then there are exceptions to that. Just because it happens a lot of the time or even most of the time does not mean it happens all the time.",
">\n\nWhy is class so low? Do you really think that a very rich black girl has less chance of becming successful than a very poor white boy?",
">\n\nFor older folks this was important but in the internet age it will matter drastically less to kids growing up there now and in the future. People are no longer restricted to geographical regions/what the local news station chooses to air/etc. \nAnyone anywhere at any time can hear personal stories in real time from someone on the other side of the globe. Lacking perspective on something now is simply a matter of not looking for it enough to begin with, considering everything you need is in your pocket. Not saying you are obligated to, just saying that if you ARE interested in learning, you don't have the excuse of \"our library doesn't have books on this\" or \"Stamps cost too much for me to have a pen pal\" or something of that matter.\nSo I guess I'm just saying that where you're born geographically is not the most important factor, but rather the people you are raised with and the resources you have to see the world outside of your own local community. Saying that your geographic location is most important is kind of like saying the high school you went to is most important, when the high school itself is probably a dime a dozen (It's just a government program), but rather the cliques within are what shape you as a person.",
">\n\nI can definitely see this point of view. It's very cool to see the world actually interconnected for the first time in human history but it's also scary because no one knows what this could possibly mean for the future of the human race",
">\n\nI suppose it's implied but I'll mention it anyways. You don't have to be born a human. You could be born as any of the millions of other species. \nFurther, you could be born with genetic diseases or syndromes, or the matter of your birth (i.e complications) can radically affect who you are and who you can become. The things you listed only start to really matter when you assume you were born to the dominant species on earth without any significant built in defects, which is a privilege, not a given.",
">\n\nLocation is pretty irrelevant...as per Freakanomics a person's parents socioeconomic standing is pretty much the single most important determinant factor.",
">\n\nI have not idea how you can really identify a single most important thing. But even if you could it would be very person dependent. For all the kids born with a birth defect or health issues that is almost assuredly more impactful that the location of their birth. \nEven excluding them, if someone was born in place a) then immediately taken away and raised somewhere else, would the location of their birth be impactful? Maybe if it gave them citizenship but probably not much otherwise. Given this “location you spend your childhood” feels more important to who you become as an adult.",
">\n\nI think Class would be number 2. But….. that depends on where you are born. If you are black and born in North Korea, you are screwed.",
">\n\nWao",
">\n\nFirstly, a lot of people marry people not from their birth locations, especially those who do not live there as adults. I'd suggest your feeling in this example of this bond being critical is a sort of confirmation bias. I'm not from the same state as my wife and experience absolutely no dissonance about that in our relationship. We both were serious musicians in our youth and that is a reason for our initial connection and conversation. What I don't think I should infer from that is that hobbies in your youth are the most important thing to happen to you.\nSecondly, it's very unclear what you mean by \"important\". Your example is about personal romantic and marital relationship - in that I'd suggest that sex is far more important since most people in the world are only attracted to sex. But, I say this only to illuminate a lack of clarity on what you mean by \"important\" as I suspect you're not actually just talking about marriage-style relationships! \nThirdly, even if it is important it's not important in clear and discreet ways. For example, if you're japanese and interested in american culture and someone from america travels for their love of food to japan you're now someone who has a birth in japan and birth in america being critical for your relationship (or at least it's start), but that is the opposite of having a common birth place. In this case, other japanese people are a bad pairing making them being born in japan an important quality, but not an enabling one for opportunity with a particular partner.",
">\n\nI was born in a European country but moved back to India before I was 1 year old. Where I was born has virtually no effect on my life other than a blurb on my passport. I am fully Indian, an Indian citizen and grew up in the same square mile for 18 years of my life. How is it the most important thing in my life?",
">\n\nWhich family you are born into is the most important thing.\nYou could be born in the same city, one in a poor family and one in a wealthy and well connected family. Culture also changes from one family to the next. You can be a family of introverts or a family of extroverts. A family of people with healthy bounds or a dysfunctional one.",
">\n\nI was born in an American Air Force base in Japan. That has done very little for who I am now. I am not into Japanese culture, nor do I seem like someone who came from a military family. Where you are raised is especially more important, and even more important is class.",
">\n\nHow do you factor in kids whose parents are military?",
">\n\nWhat if, like me, you happen to be born in a country simply because your parents happened to be there briefly? They then returned to the country I grew up in. The country I was born in has made zero difference to my life. I'd agree if you said \"where you grew up\" but where you were born is not relevant.",
">\n\nMilitary kids are an anomaly to you then. I think you are from somewhere with an established community. People breeding within a limited population = everyone kinda looks the same. A newer community will be more diverse and so will be the way they look.\nI could go to a certain small town in Pennsylvania and people will think they recognize me because i share features with two big families AND there aren’t a lot of people. But I didn’t grow up there and I wasn’t born there.\nA long time ago I was in Alaska and bumped into a random person from that Pennsylvania town who I had never met before. She said my name. Wtf, is what I though.\nBefore she left Pennsylvania a relative said to her, “Hey when your up there if you see my grandson, tell him I said Hi”",
">\n\nYes they're very much an anomaly to me. I grew up in Oklahoma where everyone knew everyone. When someone would move to our town (which was rare) we'd introduce them as \"Hey everyone! This is Jim. Jim's from California!\"\nEveryone would get so irritated about being introduced like that constantly but thats what happens when you're not from here. I don't think it's racism cuz it's happened to literally anyone who moved into our town. But more of a \"you're not us, let's make sure everyone knows it\" not in a malicious way but in a \"wow this person moved all the way here from X isn't that crazy??\" Kind of like why would anyone willingly choose to move here? What are their motives? Some people took that to be paranoid \"what do they want?\" but others take it as \"wow, Oklahoma is so interesting people are moving here!\"\nExcept when Texans move to Oklahoma. Fuck them lmao jk",
">\n\nI getcha, some tribalism. I thinks it’s human to do that. We just need to be smart.\nYou had me laughing at your texas comment.\nRecently I’ve been hearing, ‘These Aholes from Idaho moving in!’ from a neighbor. Who himself isn’t from here. People are weird, forgetful sometimes",
">\n\nHaha that's so funny to me! I've never heard of someone not from Oklahoma but living there complaining about others moving there. The people doing the majority of complaining are born and bred Oklahomans. So it's funny to think of a \"foreigner \" if you will complaining about other foreigners moving in. Comical to me haha but then again, until recently, no one in their right mind was moving to Oklahoma for any other reason than military or to work in the oil fields",
">\n\nI like your pride in the place you live. You feel stoked to be from there, that’s awesome.\nI have jealous thoughts towards people who get to grow up in a single spot. It’s easier to see your perspective and why your list started there.",
">\n\nAbsolutely!\nI'm kind of a fuck up, i struggle with addiction, grew up in the lower class. But i was born in Denmark and lower class here is still life on easy mode compared to 90% of the world. \nIn USA i would 100% be a white trash meth head given the same circumstances. \nI don't even think we have meth in Denmark\n...",
">\n\nHaha I can definitely relate! I'm from the state of Oklahoma in the United States and my family is 100% certified white trash haha. If my family was from your country we probably would've had a better leg up. I don't consider myself white trash cuz I'm not a methhead and moved out of the state but my family is still back in Oklahoma being who they are no matter what haha",
">\n\nI think the most influential isn’t the place where you were born but the place(s) where you grew up in. \nIf you shortly after being born or frequently the place where you were born is of no importance and may have had only a small influence on you. \neg. You can have the same effect of having lived in NYC with lot of different cultures by having travelled a lot as a child. \neg. Born in Africa from European parents but then move to the US and lose connection with the place you are born in. \nI can continue with examples of people I know who were born in places you would have never guessed and that haven’t influenced them at all. \nWhat you do constantly notice are the places they grew up in. The cultures and places they experienced, lived in, and participate to",
">\n\nI mean this is a little difficult to change your mind on as it is very vague as to what this entails. Overall yes, if your born in a tiny village in a rural area your life moving forward is going to statically be determined at a very high rate. That doesn't mean it is as important as many other things such as academic parents which studies have shown to have children with higher wages. saying something is the most important to something soo unquantifiable as life makes it hard to make any point really, I would say that all aspects of your life is the most important thing that will happen to you. In this crazy game we call life, one small thing can catapult you into a whole different part of the world speaking a new language, working a new job. With this i would argue (not very strong case) that the most important thing to happen to you is the decision you made/will make due to others is even more important",
">\n\nI don't super disagree, it's the birth lottery.\nI will say the country you are born in affects you greatly. Then, the district you live in while starting/ attending school (not always the same as where one is born)\nI will add I hate the people who act super proud bc they are native to some city (San Francisco is terrible for it), as though they had any part in where their parents lived or where they grew up?",
">\n\nSorry, u/lishangel – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5: \n\nComments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. \n\nComments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and \"written upvotes\" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information. \nIf you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.",
">\n\nYou say it's the most important thing, but your main example is it helped you find common ground with your husband? There are many ways to find common interests. Is there a more decisive, drastic example of where you're born being so important, above all else?",
">\n\n\n\nThe family that you're born in.\nThis includes the extended family - how well knit is it, what's the financial status of parents, grandparents and the other kin). Irrespective of the place, being born in a powerful affluent family can do wonders. More than the place you are born. I have a prime example - Noble Laureate poet Rabindranath Tagore. Do check him up.\n\n\nThe place that you're born in.\nThis decides what culture, social mores, philosophies you're brought up with. Also how you're treated depending on gender. Let's take the colonial times for example, and a person born in a French colony to slave parents. His/her fate is all but sealed.\n\n\nHow you're raised.\nThere are a lot of points here, but a reader would probably know. It's common knowledge.",
">\n\nI think Class after location, if not even before.",
">\n\nI think the most important thing to happen to you is being conceived. If you were never conceived, you don't exist. (Perhaps, you could say that making it to 20 weeks would be more important since that's when you start having brain activity, but that may be splitting hairs).",
">\n\nI would posit that _when_ you're born is more important than _where_. I think any two people born today would have more similar experiences to each other than to someone born hundreds or thousands of years ago, and likely hundreds of years in the future.",
">\n\n!delta that's so true. Even though I'm from Oklahoma I'm not sure if I'd have anything in common with the people who did the land run over a hundred years ago.",
">\n\nConfirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/FlyingCashewDog (2∆).\n^Delta System Explained ^| ^Deltaboards",
">\n\nClass (i.e., how rich you were born) beats where you were born imo. A person born into major wealth in US and a person born into major wealth in Somalia are both going to have access to similar levels of comfort, luxury and convenience in life.",
">\n\nWhat about major life experiences like a disease that alters the entire trajectory of your life?",
">\n\nI feel like that still determines where you're born. If you're born in a shithole with no access to healthcare or a tribe who kill off all their weak and sick, it would 100% matter if you were born in let's say western Europe in comparison",
">\n\nWhen you're born is probably the most important. \nIn both circumstances you could be in a terrible situation, but at least you have a chance at reaching the quality of life that the 21st century has to offer.",
">\n\nyes its true what position your born in is the most important thing. i say position because i was born in germany but that had no bearing on me. because both my parents were american and they went back to america when i was 2 so i dont even remember it. but yes people should be more understanding of others because they have no idea where they would be if they was born in that position. im talking race or religion or whatever.",
">\n\nWhy wouldn't being born at all in the first place be more important?",
">\n\nAside from the debate on “where you’re born” vs “where you’re raised” , I agree with you mostly. Being raised in a more accepting place lessens the impact of the next 4 on your list.\nI was the poor kid in a well off area. Many of my friends were well off and their parents were good people and didn’t thumb their nose at me for being on the wrong side of the tracks.\nFor better or worse, seeing that lifestyle drove me to do well in school and work to attain that.",
">\n\nDidn't you prove yourself wrong in your own example? He was born where you were born but you still saw him as an outsider...",
">\n\nI was born elsewhere and adopted to a wonderful family, which makes me who I am, not the place I was only born or where my birth mother was at - i know she was completely different class and religion, so those traits are not with me, but the ones I was growing up with, as well as the love I got from my family here.\nSo it really doesn't matter where a person is born, more where he feels he belongs to and grows up.",
">\n\nI don't like being associated with the place where I was born. People are full of prejudices and cliché about who I am or should be because of that.",
">\n\nYou guys have different cultures and yet you feel a connection because he was born in the same place as you. I think that may just be you that trying to make the connection. Would you feel the same about him if you found out that you were lied to and were actually born somewhere else?",
">\n\nI’m rolling with class on this one. When? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Sex? Doesn’t matter had rich parents. Race? Doesn’t matter if you had rich parents. Religion? Doesn’t matter.",
">\n\nI would suggest that your claim goes against a fairly strong consensus across space and time that who your parents are is the most important thing. On average, transculturally and transhistorically, this has certainly been the case. In today's world perhaps less so, but it is still a major factor, if you consider how different outcomes even in the same place depend upon your family.",
">\n\nYou are on the right track with your thinking, but it is reductive. Why not just say your material conditions growing up is the most significant predictor of one's success? Where you are born kind of points to what your material conditions might be but not what they actually are. As far as race, religion, and sex go, those can also be tied back to the environment as well because it is the environment that has shaped the culture that disadvantages people of a particular sex and race. Curious to what you think!",
">\n\nThe first three years of your life is the most important thing to happen to you, in most cases these three years decides who you are to become as a person.",
">\n\nI literally have seen people be born on an aircraft. I’m not sure this will be the single most important determinant of their life. \nMy personal guess would be parental/family wealth and social standing would have the largest single lifelong effect (for better and for worse). WAY more than geography.",
">\n\nYour family rates higher than your geography. A strong family can overcome geographic disadvantages. Not so true the other way around.",
">\n\nYeah it's really put life into perspective for me. If I couldn't control where I was born, what my culture is, what my sex is, what race I am, and what family I have, then what does all my other decisions matter? Like if 90% of my life was chosen for me by the gods or science or whatever people believe in, then I'm going to take my little sliver of choice and use it to the fullest extent in order to have the best life I can realistically have given my situation",
">\n\nokay so astrology yes? thank you lmao",
">\n\nHahaha I swear I wasn't thinking about astrology at all when making this post but if the argument supports it go for it lmao",
">\n\nI don't know the town or hospital, I only have a general idea of where I was born because my parents moved 2 weeks after I was born. I haven't been there once since I was born. The biggest impact my place of birth has had on me is that I can say I don't know the exact place I was born, it's nothing more than a mildly interesting tidbit about myself.",
">\n\nyour list can be changed into a single word, and that is \"parents.\" as they are able to change most (not all) of the values of your list individually by time",
">\n\ni'm curious why you have class as last in your ranking? i think that class is easily and by far the most important factor in one's life, honestly",
">\n\nWould you rather be born into poverty in NYC, or born to a multimillionaire in Kansas?\nWealth matters far more than location",
">\n\nWho you’re born is more important. Thst has a greater factor as to your demographics like wealth, race, medical history, family roots, upbringing, cultural norms, etc…",
">\n\nYou may want to take the Wheel of Privilege for a spin ...",
">\n\nWho you're born to implies the rest of the setting, but has an additional descriptive power for whether you will be wealthy or not.\nIf your parent is the king of Saudi Arabia, and you're born in NYC, that's very different than being born in NYC to undocumented workers",
">\n\nParents are most important to one’s upbringing.",
">\n\nI work in a fairly large multinational corporation. I could choose 10 of my close colleagues, and they'll come from maybe 7 different countries with wildly different backgrounds. We sometimes talk about our childhoods, and it's hard to imagine how different our experiences were.\nNone of us comes from a very wealthy family, but the one thing that we do have in common is that we had access to a good education. \nNow, I will admit that quality of education can vary depending on where you are born, and growing up in an underprivileged area without access to good education can be very detrimental to a person's development. It's also true that discrimination exists, and someone of a certain race, sex, gender etc., may find it harder to find the same opportunities as someone else. \nHowever, a high quality education is by far the greatest single factor in finding opportunities to grow and develop as a person and become successful.",
">\n\nTwo people born in the exact same place. One has billionaire parents who are loving and supporting, the other has violent abusive drunk parents with massive debt that will definitely beat them.",
">\n\nWhy is the location of the hole I popped out of at the time more important than anything else in my life? You haven't actually made a point on why it it's important, and why it trumps everything else in life.",
">\n\nLike it's not the same if you're born in the toilets or if you,re born in the kitchen",
">\n\nI have to disagree with this particular argument simply because you can be born in one state and then move to another. Just because you were born in NYC doesn’t mean you connect with those that lived there. \nRather, I think it’s the location(s) you experienced. It’s entirely possible to connect with people from a certain state even if you lived there for 5 years as an adult. People rely on connections and we don’t have to connect on just the places we were born. We can connect via activities, sounds, smells, etc no matter how long or short",
">\n\nNope. What you ultimately make of yourself is.",
">\n\nI have a personal quote regarding this,\nEveryone's gotta be from somewhere, it's where you end up that matters.",
">\n\nWhere you are born, or where you grew up? Two very different things",
">\n\nWhere you are born is really not that important. Where you are raised is.",
">\n\nHow about when you are born? The difference between, say, Canada and Laos pales in comparison to a gap of 2,000 years anywhere in the world.",
">\n\nI would change 4&5. Class/wealth family stability is huge also.",
">\n\nI would argue your health/ability status should be on this list, and towards the top. A person born with limited physical or mental capacity is disadvantaged in this world. There are caveats for both visible and invisible illness and they almost certainly influence your ability to work, become education, problem-solve, socialize, etc.\nSaying this as someone with a disability.",
">\n\nIt's not where you were born, its where you were raised.",
">\n\nI think you're missing the obvious here. The most important event and blessing in your life is that you were born. Fullstop. Any other characteristic or experience in your life, be it good or bad, is only possible because you were born and are alive. Take that away and nothing else matters. Literally. The gift of life is of the essence and is generally greatly undervalued and misunderstood, unless it is put in danger (accident, terminal illness, near-death experience, mystical revelation).",
">\n\nI was born in Virginia and a day later was living in Illinois. Literally never been to Virginia since - Virginia is not important at all to me nor does it mean I’m from there lol",
">\n\nWhen* you're born is bigger.",
">\n\nNah it’s the place you grew up in…",
">\n\nVery accurate assessment, well done. Factor inherent education into your equation and that will smooth out most other variables.",
">\n\nAs an American expat living in China I find your main argument to be a bit flawed. \nLots of people are born someplace and then go out and start doing their own thing and that choice to venture out made all the difference in their life. \nA gay kid growing up in a small conservative town can venture out to a more accepting enviroment and become his real self. \nA person can go out and seek their own interests. They aren't just bound by any limitations of their hometown. \nIv'e met lots of people who are nothing like others from their hometowns because they made the choice to venture out and do new things.",
">\n\nWelcome to your first dip into determinism..",
">\n\nI was born and raised in the same place, and left when I was 18. 8 years later, I have very little connection to that place, and it has very little impact on my life. Sure, it influenced me and the person I became, but I think the things I've done as an adult had a far greater impact on who I've turned out to be- college education, international travel, leaving religion, etc",
">\n\nBeing born.",
">\n\nWhere you are born isn't something that happens to you. Neither are your sex nor your genetics. They are the things by virtue of which you exist. There is no you for such things to happen to.\nA different sex or different genetics results in a different person being born. There is no \"you\" whose genetics are varied across different potential outcomes. Instead, such genetic variation corresponds to a range of prospective people, one of which is you.\nWhere you are born has causal limitations. Perhaps one could complain about being born in one country when one's parents are wealthy expats of another country. However, it is not causally possible or at least highly unlikely for a child born to poor parents in, say, India to be born in the United States. \nThey are certainly impactful toward the life you end up living, but they are the thing by virtue of which you exist. It is incorrect to frame them as something that happens to you. There is no you for such things to happen to.",
">\n\n2 babies are born in NYC. One is born an orphan, and spends his/her life going from foster home to foster home. Despite this he/she works hard and gets a good job out of community college and makes just 60k a year. Second baby is born to Old Money billionaire. This person lives till they’re 25 and receives a 25 million dollar trust fund. This second baby is given more money on one day then then the other baby makes in a lifetime probably. Where doesn’t mean shit, it’s who your born too. Even countries that aren’t as well off as the USA… like Saudi Arabia has children born to ridiculously wealthy parents. \nThen you might say money isn’t everything, and your absolutely right. Money just lets you do whatever you want without having to worry about providing for yourself. Money let’s you pursue your passion instead of taking a job to pay the bills. Money is freedom… maybe your in the minority and money isn’t a big deal, but maybe that’s because you’ve had money all your life and take it for granted.",
">\n\nWhere you born is a major factor in the person you become, but it is overly simplistic to think that is the biggest factor to determine who you become as a person. That is just location.\nYou state \"sex\", \"race\", \"religion\", and \"class\" as the next 4 most important things.\nAll of which will shape who you are as a person to some degree, but you out so many other things.\nHere are some things that you left out that have a gigantic influence on who you become:\n1) \"Your family\" One parent or two? Siblings? Grandparents? Aunts and uncles? All of that shapes who you become. Some people start with a great family. Others start with a struggle and abuse.\n2) \"Your physical health\". You were born blind or deaf? That's going to shape who you are big time. Born with one leg? You were a very sick child? That will have major effects on how you adapt to the world.\n3) \"Your intelligence / mental health\" If you were born without two brain cells to rub together you are going to have a bad time. If you were born gifted that can help you out big time. If you have mental health problems from early on that is a big problem.\n4) \"When you were born.\" If you were born in 1800 it is a big difference than if you were born in 2000.\n5) \"Access to education.\" Are you born in a town where they have no library and no schools? Good luck finding an education. If you have all these books to read that others have written you got a good head start.\nWhat is the biggest determining factor of who you become can really effect you become in a big way, but many different factors can change who you become and which is the biggest effect would vary from person to person and it's always some combination of these and other things.",
">\n\nMy immediate family live in Australia now, and my extended family still live in the UK, but my parents both have adventurous spirits and independently left England and moved abroad in their early 20s, and they met overseas. \nI was born in a random little country that is so unexpected for anyone looking at my stereotypical white British-Australian arse that I use it as my go-to \"one unusual fact about me...\" corporate icebreaker, and people are still surprised even though I've been at the same place for going on 15 years. \nI'm not a citizen of the country because I don't meet qualifying requirements. We lived there until I was 5, so I have some memories but not many. \nReally I would say that my country of birth is a curiosity, but nothing of significance about me. There are lots of more foundational things that built Who I Am.",
">\n\nNot really, mostly because where you’re born isn’t necessarily where you grow up.",
">\n\nI was born in Taiwan and my parents immigrated to Canada before I was 1. Being born in Taiwan meant nothing.",
">\n\nI would change it to \"where you're raised.\"",
">\n\nI disagree. You're ordering is fine, other than I put class at the top. Nothing matters to anyone anywhere more than class.",
">\n\nNo shit.",
">\n\nDepending on how you determine personhood, it's easily argued that if you're born, is more important, as opposed to being stillborn, dying while your mother is in labor, aborted, etc.\nIt doesn't matter where you're born if you fail to be born. For even hard line pro-choice people, you'd be hard-pressed to find some that think an 8.5 month old fetus isn't a person yet, so let's just assume being a person happens sometime between conception and birth. Therefore, it's simply more important to make it past your birth alive, than if you're born in a remote village with no infrastructure vs into a rich uptown Manhattan family.\nAs much of a stretch or dream it is to say that the person born in the village can still achieve greatness, become powerful, etc., it is still technically possible, but further, living a fulfilling life is still perfectly achievable regardless. If you're dead before you can even interact with your environment, that's simply not the case.\nEdit: Getting a little lost in the sauce with the argument, but theoretically whatever the earliest thing is in the timeline of your personhood is that is big enough to end it, would imo be the most important thing, and that seems to be whether you make it past your birth or not. Variables like a mother who took care of herself while pregnant, etc., just affect the blanket consideration of if you're born or not.",
">\n\nAgree, except the woman who gives birth to you (or aborts, or dies in labor, etc) is more important because she actually determines IF you are born."
] |
Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.
|
[] |
>
just makes you wonder what Trump has on him.
Indeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose."
] |
>
He did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he "was out" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump."
] |
>
I mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up."
] |
>
So Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a "race bating, xenophobic bigot"?
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it."
] |
>
Oh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?"
] |
>
Valid point.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now."
] |
>
~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point."
] |
>
Let the money grab begin (continue)!
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?..."
] |
>
That’s code for “more dick sucking”
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!"
] |
>
Sipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”"
] |
>
So, Trump Kombucha?
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon"
] |
>
Lmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?"
] |
>
He should join Trump as his cell mate
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂"
] |
>
Lol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate"
] |
>
The dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO."
] |
>
Once a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss"
] |
>
I wonder if Lindsey swallows
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker."
] |
>
Just when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows"
] |
>
MKay.
Anyway…
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower"
] |
>
Trump and his lapdog live from South Carolina
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…"
] |
>
The Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina"
] |
>
The republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party."
] |
>
This all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).
Trump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.
For those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).
So political whores like Graham can't help themselves.
He won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and "leaving it up to the voters to decide". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.
Hopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party."
] |
>
Hope it has a pathetic turnout.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.",
">\n\nThis all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).\nTrump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.\nFor those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).\nSo political whores like Graham can't help themselves.\nHe won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and \"leaving it up to the voters to decide\". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.\nHopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that."
] |
>
Well I doooo declare!
POS human continues to be a POS human for another POS human.
FIFY
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.",
">\n\nThis all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).\nTrump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.\nFor those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).\nSo political whores like Graham can't help themselves.\nHe won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and \"leaving it up to the voters to decide\". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.\nHopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that.",
">\n\nHope it has a pathetic turnout."
] |
>
Just can’t let it go can you Lindsey? The blackmail is too much. You are going fry some day and then go: “but the truth coming out was so much worst. So I tried to have democracy over thrown and Putin useful idiots in charge. It was that or face the truth, I lick lies and money.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.",
">\n\nThis all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).\nTrump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.\nFor those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).\nSo political whores like Graham can't help themselves.\nHe won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and \"leaving it up to the voters to decide\". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.\nHopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that.",
">\n\nHope it has a pathetic turnout.",
">\n\nWell I doooo declare!\nPOS human continues to be a POS human for another POS human.\nFIFY"
] |
>
The man is rudderless without McCain.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.",
">\n\nThis all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).\nTrump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.\nFor those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).\nSo political whores like Graham can't help themselves.\nHe won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and \"leaving it up to the voters to decide\". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.\nHopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that.",
">\n\nHope it has a pathetic turnout.",
">\n\nWell I doooo declare!\nPOS human continues to be a POS human for another POS human.\nFIFY",
">\n\nJust can’t let it go can you Lindsey? The blackmail is too much. You are going fry some day and then go: “but the truth coming out was so much worst. So I tried to have democracy over thrown and Putin useful idiots in charge. It was that or face the truth, I lick lies and money."
] |
>
He's a parasite, when McCain died he had to find a new host to latch onto.
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.",
">\n\nThis all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).\nTrump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.\nFor those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).\nSo political whores like Graham can't help themselves.\nHe won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and \"leaving it up to the voters to decide\". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.\nHopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that.",
">\n\nHope it has a pathetic turnout.",
">\n\nWell I doooo declare!\nPOS human continues to be a POS human for another POS human.\nFIFY",
">\n\nJust can’t let it go can you Lindsey? The blackmail is too much. You are going fry some day and then go: “but the truth coming out was so much worst. So I tried to have democracy over thrown and Putin useful idiots in charge. It was that or face the truth, I lick lies and money.",
">\n\nThe man is rudderless without McCain."
] |
>
His official role will be “Juggler of Balls”. This man has no shame
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.",
">\n\nThis all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).\nTrump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.\nFor those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).\nSo political whores like Graham can't help themselves.\nHe won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and \"leaving it up to the voters to decide\". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.\nHopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that.",
">\n\nHope it has a pathetic turnout.",
">\n\nWell I doooo declare!\nPOS human continues to be a POS human for another POS human.\nFIFY",
">\n\nJust can’t let it go can you Lindsey? The blackmail is too much. You are going fry some day and then go: “but the truth coming out was so much worst. So I tried to have democracy over thrown and Putin useful idiots in charge. It was that or face the truth, I lick lies and money.",
">\n\nThe man is rudderless without McCain.",
">\n\nHe's a parasite, when McCain died he had to find a new host to latch onto."
] |
>
|
[
"Why not? Graham pissed away his little remaining integrity a long time ago. There's nothing left to lose.",
">\n\n\njust makes you wonder what Trump has on him.\n\nIndeed. Remember, Graham was initially very critical of Trump. Until he suddenly wasn't, and instead Graham became Trump's biggest Senate sycophant. So, what changed exactly? Certainly not Donald Trump.",
">\n\nHe did get drunk on Jan 6th and say he \"was out\" or some such nonsense. We all knew he'd chicken out when he sobered up.",
">\n\nI mean my dog follows me around too, so I get it.",
">\n\nSo Lyndsay no longer believes that Trump is a \"race bating, xenophobic bigot\"?",
">\n\nOh he probably does. He either just agrees or doesn't care. I'm pretty sure those words are considered compliments to Republicans now.",
">\n\nValid point.",
">\n\n\n~~Lindsey Graham to join Trump for South Carolina campaign team launch~~ Flip flopping traitor enabler Lindsey joins team Traitor Trumps campaign launch. Who'd a guessed?...",
">\n\nLet the money grab begin (continue)!",
">\n\nThat’s code for “more dick sucking”",
">\n\nSipping that toadstool like it's sweet tea on a humid Charleston afternoon",
">\n\nSo, Trump Kombucha?",
">\n\nLmfao I laughed and snot came out my nose 😂",
">\n\nHe should join Trump as his cell mate",
">\n\nLol, Trump fans don't even like Graham anymore. They call him a RINO.",
">\n\nThe dirt he has on ms Lyndsey must just be chef's kiss",
">\n\nOnce a bootlicker, always a bootlicker.",
">\n\nI wonder if Lindsey swallows",
">\n\nJust when you thought this POS couldn't stoop any lower",
">\n\nMKay.\nAnyway…",
">\n\nTrump and his lapdog live from South Carolina",
">\n\nThe Republican Party needs to distance itself from scam artists and yahoos. The Republican Party needs to become the party of intelligent conservative reasonable honest leaders. Let the scam artists and yahoos create their own Yahoo Party.",
">\n\nThe republican party has never been that, not post WW2 at least, so it’s probably easier for intelligent, conservative, reasonable, honest leaders - if such a beast exists - to start a new party.",
">\n\nThis all makes sense in a freakonomics kind of way and is one of the reasons why Trump is going to get the 2024 nomination (unless something radical occurs).\nTrump has a ton of campaign funds. Some which can be used directly for his own campaign and others which can be directed to other campaigns. So while the party as a whole would be wise to banish Trump, individually those who can, will go after the cash his campaign has to pay out.\nFor those like Graham who is in a state where Trump won 55% to 43%, the situation makes even more sense. Trump still probably has most of that 55%. If you apply the 4pt drop in national approval since Election Day 2020, Trump would still be a net positive in South Carolina. Even for those who don't support Trump now, it's unlikely the taint of Trump would rub off on Graham (insert your own joke here).\nSo political whores like Graham can't help themselves.\nHe won't be alone. Some are going to try to get in early, while others will hedge their bets by just not saying anything negative and \"leaving it up to the voters to decide\". Meanwhile during the primaries, it will be Trump supporters against a voters who split their vote amongst a wide array of candidates, none of which defeat Trump individually.\nHopefully he loses the general in 2024 as well as the inevitable anti-democracy efforts that follow and that will be that.",
">\n\nHope it has a pathetic turnout.",
">\n\nWell I doooo declare!\nPOS human continues to be a POS human for another POS human.\nFIFY",
">\n\nJust can’t let it go can you Lindsey? The blackmail is too much. You are going fry some day and then go: “but the truth coming out was so much worst. So I tried to have democracy over thrown and Putin useful idiots in charge. It was that or face the truth, I lick lies and money.",
">\n\nThe man is rudderless without McCain.",
">\n\nHe's a parasite, when McCain died he had to find a new host to latch onto.",
">\n\nHis official role will be “Juggler of Balls”. This man has no shame"
] |
This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.
Remember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not "thoughts had in the shower!"
(For an explanation of what a "showerthought" is, please read this page.)
Rule-breaking posts may result in bans.
|
[] |
>
|
[
"This is a friendly reminder to read our rules.\nRemember, /r/Showerthoughts is for showerthoughts, not \"thoughts had in the shower!\"\n(For an explanation of what a \"showerthought\" is, please read this page.)\nRule-breaking posts may result in bans."
] |
It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked.
I am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets.
Well done, Netherlands! 👍
|
[] |
>
And IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍"
] |
>
That is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news!
I think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US.
I think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too."
] |
>
One battery requires a team of 90 to operate.
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response."
] |
>
What needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate."
] |
>
They could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?"
] |
>
Thank you!!!
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also."
] |
>
So that’s three batteries now?
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!"
] |
>
Landry: "Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!"
Walter: "I dont have the right AA system."
Jack: "You'll be fine!"
(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?"
] |
>
For free ….dat is net gazelic
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?",
">\n\nLandry: \"Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!\"\nWalter: \"I dont have the right AA system.\"\nJack: \"You'll be fine!\"\n(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)"
] |
>
Niet gezellig. But it is, because it brings joy to Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?",
">\n\nLandry: \"Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!\"\nWalter: \"I dont have the right AA system.\"\nJack: \"You'll be fine!\"\n(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)",
">\n\nFor free ….dat is net gazelic"
] |
>
Isn’t it a bit late for that? Should of sent them months ago
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?",
">\n\nLandry: \"Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!\"\nWalter: \"I dont have the right AA system.\"\nJack: \"You'll be fine!\"\n(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)",
">\n\nFor free ….dat is net gazelic",
">\n\nNiet gezellig. But it is, because it brings joy to Ukrainian soldiers and civilians."
] |
>
It will take months for Ukraine's first patriot battery to be fully operational. Each require upwards of 70 soldiers with months of training. Now that the US has set up a training program, other NATO countries can donate their Patriot batteries knowing that they will be received by people that can actually use them.
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?",
">\n\nLandry: \"Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!\"\nWalter: \"I dont have the right AA system.\"\nJack: \"You'll be fine!\"\n(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)",
">\n\nFor free ….dat is net gazelic",
">\n\nNiet gezellig. But it is, because it brings joy to Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.",
">\n\nIsn’t it a bit late for that? Should of sent them months ago"
] |
>
Lots of the training is on the maintenance side of things. Hopefully some of that can be left out and the units needing maintenance can be brought back to Poland for maintenance by NATO troops
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?",
">\n\nLandry: \"Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!\"\nWalter: \"I dont have the right AA system.\"\nJack: \"You'll be fine!\"\n(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)",
">\n\nFor free ….dat is net gazelic",
">\n\nNiet gezellig. But it is, because it brings joy to Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.",
">\n\nIsn’t it a bit late for that? Should of sent them months ago",
">\n\nIt will take months for Ukraine's first patriot battery to be fully operational. Each require upwards of 70 soldiers with months of training. Now that the US has set up a training program, other NATO countries can donate their Patriot batteries knowing that they will be received by people that can actually use them."
] |
>
Could always use (western-sourced) PMCs in Ukraine for some of the maintenance and servicing tasks, but that would require some political will on behalf of the West in allowing retired personnel to take this sort of job.
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?",
">\n\nLandry: \"Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!\"\nWalter: \"I dont have the right AA system.\"\nJack: \"You'll be fine!\"\n(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)",
">\n\nFor free ….dat is net gazelic",
">\n\nNiet gezellig. But it is, because it brings joy to Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.",
">\n\nIsn’t it a bit late for that? Should of sent them months ago",
">\n\nIt will take months for Ukraine's first patriot battery to be fully operational. Each require upwards of 70 soldiers with months of training. Now that the US has set up a training program, other NATO countries can donate their Patriot batteries knowing that they will be received by people that can actually use them.",
">\n\nLots of the training is on the maintenance side of things. Hopefully some of that can be left out and the units needing maintenance can be brought back to Poland for maintenance by NATO troops"
] |
>
|
[
"It is certainly not too late! And the US training program, from what I understand is being fast tracked. \nI am super happy the Dutch are doing this. The American donation of the first system plus the training was great news last month, but Ukraine needs a few more Patriot systems, if possible, to cover more of its cities and metro areas that have become Russian (illegal) targets. \nWell done, Netherlands! 👍",
">\n\nAnd IIRC there's a German battery on the way too.",
">\n\nThat is fantastic! I really hope you are remembering that correctly, because it would be excellent news! \nI think I read somewhere that the optimum number would be 8 patriot systems. So if they were to have three already, that would be very good news indeed. They could get the training done and get 3 patriots deployed, and then start training for the next round, which is sure to come either from other countries or more from the US. \nI think the West is disgusted by all the news stories of civilian targets being deliberately struck with large numbers of civilian casualties. I don’t know what Putin expected when he started deliberately targeting civilians in their sleep, but patriot systems should have totally been the expected response.",
">\n\nOne battery requires a team of 90 to operate.",
">\n\nWhat needs to happen for allies to send offensive weapons to Ukraine?",
">\n\nThey could have 3 MBT but only if the US is willing to send them Germany is also.",
">\n\nThank you!!!",
">\n\nSo that’s three batteries now?",
">\n\nLandry: \"Hey, Walter! Come on, we're all going!\"\nWalter: \"I dont have the right AA system.\"\nJack: \"You'll be fine!\"\n(Walter strolls into Ukraine with Patriot system)",
">\n\nFor free ….dat is net gazelic",
">\n\nNiet gezellig. But it is, because it brings joy to Ukrainian soldiers and civilians.",
">\n\nIsn’t it a bit late for that? Should of sent them months ago",
">\n\nIt will take months for Ukraine's first patriot battery to be fully operational. Each require upwards of 70 soldiers with months of training. Now that the US has set up a training program, other NATO countries can donate their Patriot batteries knowing that they will be received by people that can actually use them.",
">\n\nLots of the training is on the maintenance side of things. Hopefully some of that can be left out and the units needing maintenance can be brought back to Poland for maintenance by NATO troops",
">\n\nCould always use (western-sourced) PMCs in Ukraine for some of the maintenance and servicing tasks, but that would require some political will on behalf of the West in allowing retired personnel to take this sort of job."
] |
"Rush". It's been a year.
|
[] |
>
I'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year."
] |
>
German here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).
He won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.
Rheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.
The most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.
The Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.
I hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!"
] |
>
Really interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first."
] |
>
There recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of "Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?"
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?"
] |
>
Sounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good.
I wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\""
] |
>
Has been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.
For example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.
What is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable."
] |
>
American here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already."
] |
>
Christine. It has been a few years since Ursula.
It isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.
Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.
Well agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better."
] |
>
Ah gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.
We just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible."
] |
>
What does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”
Russia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol."
] |
>
Thats not the point
Hes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis
He just wants money
He does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money."
] |
>
It’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia"
] |
>
In 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?"
] |
>
He sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money."
] |
>
In a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.
Remember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls."
] |
>
I don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.
He stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it."
] |
>
Did any other nato country supply them with tanks ?
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.",
">\n\nI don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.\nHe stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response."
] |
>
Plenty of tanks were supplied, from the new toys, only the UK did it.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.",
">\n\nI don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.\nHe stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response.",
">\n\nDid any other nato country supply them with tanks ?"
] |
>
I looked up the Challenger 2s, what we call "new" stuff was actually designed 40 years ago lol. I'd assume they are still pretty effective but it took me by surprise that they were designed in 1986-1993.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.",
">\n\nI don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.\nHe stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response.",
">\n\nDid any other nato country supply them with tanks ?",
">\n\nPlenty of tanks were supplied, from the new toys, only the UK did it."
] |
>
That's actually pretty common in military equipment. Most big stuff takes years and years to design and build, have several upgrades throughout their lifecycle, and so are designed to be operated for 50 years, sometimes more.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.",
">\n\nI don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.\nHe stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response.",
">\n\nDid any other nato country supply them with tanks ?",
">\n\nPlenty of tanks were supplied, from the new toys, only the UK did it.",
">\n\nI looked up the Challenger 2s, what we call \"new\" stuff was actually designed 40 years ago lol. I'd assume they are still pretty effective but it took me by surprise that they were designed in 1986-1993."
] |
>
The M1 Abrams is like on their 7th or 8th refresh at this point lol.
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.",
">\n\nI don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.\nHe stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response.",
">\n\nDid any other nato country supply them with tanks ?",
">\n\nPlenty of tanks were supplied, from the new toys, only the UK did it.",
">\n\nI looked up the Challenger 2s, what we call \"new\" stuff was actually designed 40 years ago lol. I'd assume they are still pretty effective but it took me by surprise that they were designed in 1986-1993.",
">\n\nThat's actually pretty common in military equipment. Most big stuff takes years and years to design and build, have several upgrades throughout their lifecycle, and so are designed to be operated for 50 years, sometimes more."
] |
>
Certainly no pressure on the Ukrainian side, take your time!
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.",
">\n\nI don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.\nHe stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response.",
">\n\nDid any other nato country supply them with tanks ?",
">\n\nPlenty of tanks were supplied, from the new toys, only the UK did it.",
">\n\nI looked up the Challenger 2s, what we call \"new\" stuff was actually designed 40 years ago lol. I'd assume they are still pretty effective but it took me by surprise that they were designed in 1986-1993.",
">\n\nThat's actually pretty common in military equipment. Most big stuff takes years and years to design and build, have several upgrades throughout their lifecycle, and so are designed to be operated for 50 years, sometimes more.",
">\n\nThe M1 Abrams is like on their 7th or 8th refresh at this point lol."
] |
>
Chancellor Treebeard
|
[
"\"Rush\". It's been a year.",
">\n\nI'm a German and my strong gut instincts tell me that these are only stalling tactic and Scholz ultimately will say 'No'. Maybe Scholz tries to stall the process only until our new secretary of defense has taken his oath and afterwards Scholz will blame him for saying 'No'. Or maybe he thinks the war will stop soon or any other nonsense, I don't know. I really hate this rat on the throne!",
">\n\nGerman here too, with some insight (know people who work at the Bundeswehr).\nHe won't say no, he is stalling for time. Because there are not enough tanks in working order to give and/or working infrastructure to maintain them.\nRheinmetall already accelerated their process to get Leopards in working order, and can only deliver 15! in the third quarter of this year.\nThe most likely scenario is that some Leopards that are currently in maintenance (about 30) for Slovakia/Czech Republic are going to Ukraine.\nThe Bundeswehr really does not have many Tanks, something around 260, and not even half of them are in working order.\nI hope that makes it clear why Scholz is stalling for time. The tanks have to be repaired/build first.",
">\n\nReally interesting, thank you! But why isn't he just telling this to media? Germany really made it public that the Bundeswehr isn't in their best state right now, so why is he stalling without telling the reason for it?",
">\n\nThere recently has been a scandal where a lot of new Puma tanks were unusable at a training exercise. This guy wants to avoid the question of \"Where are those 100 billion bucks huh?\"",
">\n\nSounds like Germany is suffering really badly on the military front. That isn't good. \nI wish France would step up more in this case. Leclerc tanks are also quite capable.",
">\n\nHas been for a loooooooong time. Only now is there an effort being made to fix it, however effective that may be is still very open to discussion.\nFor example, we did boost 100 billion for the Army. But we've had very high spending compared to europe before. And the army was still shit.\nWhat is important is how the money is used. And well, for the past year we had some Grandma with 0 military know how, who just wanted the pension and famously did not give a fuck, as minister of defense. So that cash is most likely gone already.",
">\n\nAmerican here, are you talking about Ursula or Christine? Follow German politics rather closely but I'll admit to not following the Bundeswehr as much as I should have. It always seemed like a fantastic force that was undersupplied and underfunded, but that's just an outsiders perspective and, frankly, y'all do y'all. Y'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.",
">\n\nChristine. It has been a few years since Ursula.\nIt isn't even underfunded that much. The bureaucracy inside is just sooo fucking massive that changes are extremely hard to make, and most of the money gets spent in super ineffective ways & just disappears without much of an impact.\n\nY'all have built a democracy that's 10x better than what we have, like even y'all's voting system is far better.\n\nWell agreed on that. The dysfunction of your election system is incredible.",
">\n\nAh gotcha ty. Fair enough on the spending. The one advantage America has is that we can just shove so much money into our military that even though it’s bloated and a lot disappears… something still gets done.\nWe just don’t have good healthcare, charging networks, environmental protections, worker protections or… anything lol.",
">\n\nWhat does he think will happen? Honestly, if he says no we need to know the actual things he thinks will happen. Not just, “it will escalate with Russia.”\nRussia isn’t touching Germany and Russia can’t possibly escalate in Ukraine without WMDs, which are suicide and would not be used because Putin likes life and his cronies like money.",
">\n\nThats not the point\nHes just a politician, he doesnt care about murder or nazis\nHe just wants money\nHe does the least so russia doesnt get angry because he thinks then he can still make business with russia",
">\n\nIt’s kind of puzzling though. Let’s say it’s 2025 and Russia has been out of Ukraine for a year. Does Germany really want to get back in bed with Putin?",
">\n\nIn 2014 there already was an invasion of Ukraine and everyone still got back to bed with Putin after that. Politicians will do anything because of money.",
">\n\nHe sucks. I was mildly positive toward him when he took over after Angela, but he’s been a huge disappointment. Baebock ought to be Chancellor, she has more balls.",
">\n\nIn a way, yes, she says more balls-y things. But then, she's also not in power.\nRemember how she was initially defending Julian Assange and even called Merkel's goverment cowards and now she remains silent or dodges questions when asked to comment on it.",
">\n\nI don't understand why Scholz is so reluctant to supply tanks to Ukraine. His dragging feet will impact any Ukraine offensive to kick Russia out of country.\nHe stated on article he won't be rushed into decision but all it does is to make Germany look bad to the rest of NATO countries wanting quicker response.",
">\n\nDid any other nato country supply them with tanks ?",
">\n\nPlenty of tanks were supplied, from the new toys, only the UK did it.",
">\n\nI looked up the Challenger 2s, what we call \"new\" stuff was actually designed 40 years ago lol. I'd assume they are still pretty effective but it took me by surprise that they were designed in 1986-1993.",
">\n\nThat's actually pretty common in military equipment. Most big stuff takes years and years to design and build, have several upgrades throughout their lifecycle, and so are designed to be operated for 50 years, sometimes more.",
">\n\nThe M1 Abrams is like on their 7th or 8th refresh at this point lol.",
">\n\nCertainly no pressure on the Ukrainian side, take your time!"
] |
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